The Hidden Link: Your Diet's Influence on Skin Disorders with Pip Reed & Isabella Loneragan

Have you ever wondered about the intricate link between your skin health and the food on your plate?

Buckle up as we dive into a captivating discussion with the dynamic duo, Pip Reed and Isabella Loneragan, seasoned practitioners who bring a fresh perspective to skin disorders and nutrition.

We dissect the complexity of the skin anatomy, exploring the acid mantle's role as our personal bodyguard against harmful bacteria. This episode will shine a light on the myriad of bacteria living on our skin and broaden your understanding of skin health from a holistic standpoint.

Learn about the connection between skin health and nutrition with Pip Reid and Isabella Loneragan. We'll explore the anatomy of the skin and the role of bacteria in protecting it.

Discover the root causes of acne, including gut health, hormone balance, sleep, stress, liver function, and detoxification. Get practical advice on repairing the gut lining, boosting collagen, reducing scarring, and how your diet impacts acne. We'll also discuss the link between diet, skin disorders, and hormonal imbalances, including high sugar and carbohydrate intake.

Join us for this insightful conversation on the holistic approach to skin health.


About Pip & Isabella
Pip is a weight loss, hormones and healthy aging expert and is a qualified nutritionist with an undergraduate Bachelor of Business and a post-graduate Advanced Diploma in Nutritional Medicine.

Pip has over a decade of experience, and specialises in weight loss, hormone conditions and imbalances, skin health and anti ageing. Her fresh insights into achieving beauty both inside and out using a holistic approach to nutrition as the basis of health and well-being are always realistic and designed to work with people’s lives.

Isabella is an award-winning skincare product formulator, expert skin therapist and trailblazer in the field of psychodermatology. Having successfully run three skin focused clinics both in Australia and overseas her experience is unparalleled.  Across her expansive international career, Isabella has always recognised the profound connection between the mind and skin, and has transformed the lives of countless individuals.

Connect with Pip: www.pipreednutrition.com
Connect with Isabella: www.ilskin.com.au

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DISCLAIMER: The Information provided in the Wellness by Designs podcast is for educational purposes only; the information presented is not intended to be used as medical advice; please seek the advice of a qualified healthcare professional if what you have heard here today raises questions or concerns relating to your health

Transcript

Speaker 1: 1:08

This is Wellness by Designs, and I'm your host, andrew Whitfield Cook. Today is Pip Reid and Isabella Lonerigan, and today we'll be exploring the intersection of skin disorders and nutrition. Welcome to Wellness by Designs, pip and Isabella. How are you?

Speaker 3: 1:25

Thank you, we're very well, very well.

Speaker 1: 1:29

That's good. Now I think first we need to sort of get a handle on both of you. You're not sisters, you're praccies. Tell us a little bit about how you met and how you started practicing together.

Speaker 3: 1:43

Well, we were introduced as friends and as we started to talk about what we do and what we treat and how we treat, we realised that we had a huge crossover and that not only did we have a crossover, but we were trying to treat the same things and give advice that we realised that the other one could give.

Speaker 2: 2:08

Yeah good support. I think, yeah, we sort of started off more in a social environment, but then Pip had been suffering with rosacea and I was talking a bit about some of the skin conditions that I treat and she was like, wow, okay, I've been suffering from a few of those, I better come and see you. So she did and then kind of went from there, didn't it?

Speaker 3: 2:31

Yeah, yeah. So Isabella opened my eyes I guess a lot to the topical treatment and her approach to skin, as opposed to just going to a beautician. And in reverse, when we started talking, isabella actually thought she was symptom free when talking about nutrition, and as I drove a bit deeper into her health, she realised that she actually had a lot of things going on as well that needed my treatment. So I think we like.

Speaker 2: 3:03

It was a really interesting mutual respect for things that we hadn't put a lot of weight on in our life or had sort of brushed it off as something that we were to live with. Yeah, and then, when we started to explore each other's modalities, we realised how powerful they were for us as individuals. And then we realised, oh my gosh, if we're seeing this for ourselves using each other's modalities, imagine the power we've got for our clients. So then we started to heavily cross refer and we've seen an incredible relationship develop through using both of our skills for the common good effectively.

Speaker 1: 3:44

A mutually serendipitous professional relationship.

Speaker 3: 3:48

Exactly, Very much Reverse symbiotics, all of that We've created.

Speaker 1: 3:54

And we'll be talking about that a little bit later.

Speaker 3: 3:59

Yes, we will be, but it has a great journey.

Speaker 1: 4:04

Yeah, so we're talking about skin disorders, not just beauty and things like that. So let's delve into this. I think we've got to start right back at the beginning. Let's start back at anatomy Skin. How many layers, different aspects of skin. If we could go through that, Isabella, can I ask you first?

Speaker 2: 4:28

Yeah, sure. So the skin is made up of six layers of epidermis which is a majority of the work and the time that I spend with the skin in those six layers and each layer works synergistically with the next layer. And I kind of look at skin the way I look at the customs department at the airport. The customs department works in the same way that skin does. It controls what comes in and out and it protects us as a whole entity. So when it comes to the layers, they have to all be protected, but then again all works synergistically again together. So the anatomy as well as the anatomy and the names of the layers are important if you really want to delve into that. The way the skin actually works is it's not only a physical barrier to our organs but it's also works as a chemical barrier, which is where our acid mantle and our barrier repair really plays a huge role. And acid mantle and barrier repair is where I do a lot of my work and do a lot of my recommendations and fixing in my career.

Speaker 1: 5:36

Can I have some clarity for myself on that? The acid mantle. So we're not talking about something that sits on the skin, we're talking about in the skin. Is that correct?

Speaker 2: 5:47

Yeah, look, it actually is both. So the acid mantle is a material that is made in our sebaceous glands, our sebum, our oil production glands, and when we produce sebum out of our gland it actually mixes with sweat and it travels up the hair follicle and it smooths out onto the skin, giving us nutrition, hydration, bacterial protection all of the above to make it's like an oily substance, so nothing, which is why our skin is waterproof, which means bacteria that is not designed to enter the body and challenge the immune system will be trapped on the outside. So the acid mantle is a very important factor of the epidermis and we kind of need our acid mantle to stay on an acidic level and not an alkaline level. So like a four and a half to five would be somewhere we would aim to sit because, again, it keeps that that ecosystem really safe.

Speaker 1: 6:46

Okay. So, pip, just if I can get you to take over here. We talk about, you know, our bacterial milieu, and of course we're not just talking about what resides inside our gut, but we've got a normal microbiome, my microbiota, that inhabits all of our skin as well. So it's not just antibacterial per se, but we've got to think about what is we said the word previously symbiotic to us on the outside. So what governs that? Are we talking about just the pH, or are we talking about, you know, antimicrobial part of the immune system that might be active and actively secreted?

Speaker 3: 7:29

So we're looking at it from a holistic point of view. With our skin health, you know, once you've compromised that barrier, so say you've got bacteria overgrowth or particles coming through the skin or leaky skin, which is another term for it, which is more the inside coming out or displaying symptoms on the outside. So with the symbiotic, what we're talking about is we're looking at the whole system and what's going on that may have caused any of these issues. So yes, of course the gut, and we have our own microbiome in the gut and if that becomes disrupted, that can you know, display on the skin in a really you know, it's not like a roundabout way it's a symptom of, say, a leaky gut or small intestinal bacterial overgrowth or H pylori or bacterial infections can display or present in a compromised skin barrier and that might be acne dermatitis, sorry, even accelerated aging. So right?

Speaker 1: 8:44

no, I think I'm just waking up to something. So my previous thoughts were things like if you get, what's it? Corinia, bacteria macanis and that's on the skin causing the problem and overgrowth, causing the problem because it gets into a folliculina, causes a problem by attacking from the outside what you guys do is you treat in a holistic manner to say, okay, we've got inflammatory mediators coming from the inside out which might compromise that integrity, thereby allowing that thing to invade from the outside. Is that correct? Yeah?

Speaker 2: 9:20

exactly. I mean, that's where we're yeah, that's where we've made huge movement and grounding working together.

Speaker 2: 9:27

And I'll use my husband as an example. My husband has quite bad acne rosacea. He has had four the entire time. We've been in a relationship so seven years and I've treated those whole seven years Now. You can't cure rosacea. You can reduce the symptoms, but I could only reduce them so much as a skin therapist and I kept saying to him you need to get your gut health sorted out. And he wouldn't listen to me. And then when I introduced him to Pip and she spent five minutes with him, he was like, oh, maybe I should have my gut health looked out. And of course his rosacea is now under control. So it was a perfect example for us to realize, wow, we could be offering our clients so much more support.

Speaker 2: 10:09

If we just teach our clients that they it's not a silver bullet just to go to one practitioner. We have to work synergistically together. So your point about working internally and with a P acne externally is perfect. We absolutely work together from internal and external avenues.

Speaker 1: 10:26

Propionic bacterium acne. Forgive me, you're right, the correct genus. That's okay. I have coronavacum, that's the old term. And, isabella, it wouldn't be the first time in history, by the way, that a spouse wouldn't believe the other, even though they're professionally trained. Yes, yes.

Speaker 3: 10:45

Yeah, have a good time.

Speaker 1: 10:48

Happens to even famous cardiologists like Dr Ross Walker. Just so that you know, I'm interested. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So can we just go through? Do you tend to see more of the acne-related skin conditions in practice or do you see the whole gamut? I see a whole gamut.

Speaker 2: 11:17

Yeah, and I used to work in dermatology for four years, so I saw everything in dermatology and like shocking, shocking stuff, whereas now in private practice it's a bit different. I do see across the board symptoms, but I don't see everything all the time, obviously, and I find it goes in peaks and troughs, like I might see a rosacea patient and then that rosacea patient talks to their friends and the next minute I have 20 rosacea patients booked in, then it's an acne patient and then the same again. So I see a lot of everything. It just depends on kind of the cycle and what's happening.

Speaker 1: 11:55

Okay. So, pip, can we start? Let's just delve into treatment. Forgive me reword that. Let's delve into conditions. So you mentioned it just before, isabella, and that's acne. So acne and scarring, something that still causes tragedy with people's self-esteem. It's not just a physical thing, but it affects people mentally throughout their teenage years and even onwards. So let's talk about acne and how bad it is, what causes it and the sequelae that happens with the scarring things like that. Pip, can I get you to start off and we'll transfer over to Isabella.

Speaker 3: 12:36

Of course. So with acne and we do know there are a lot of types I always want to know and this goes across the board but what's the driving cause? And that's the main part, or the main, I guess, strategy behind being a holistic practitioner. We don't just go and treat it acutely. I wanna know what's going on. So for a lot of my acne clients, they'll come and they'll present myriad symptoms that range from stress, poor sleep. Some of them might be hormonal. So we might be looking at cyclical acne that's coming out at different times of the month, whether they're ovulating or going through menstruation when the acne is actually presenting are we looking at it on the chin? Are we looking at it on the jaw, the chest, the back? Is it there all the time? So we're going to do a deep dive into where the acne is and when it's presenting, as well as their gut health, their hormone health, as I said, their sleep, their stress, their detoxification, their liver function. And it sounds like, I think, to the external person like that's a lot of work.

Speaker 3: 13:48

But realistically, we have a process and we have a plan and we have a lot of testing these days, some fabulous functional testing that I use a lot of the gastrointestinal mapping test I use and which gives us a full picture on our gut health. If we've got a compromised gut lining, if we're looking at bacterial overgrowth, so we start there and making sure that all our nutrients in order. So you're going to get your vitamin D, you're getting a lot of antioxidant support, but really a lot of it comes down to healing and sealing that gut lining glutathione, glutamine, zinc, vitamin C and then rebuilding that collagen for wound healing, to reduce that scarring as well. So you want both of these things to be happening. We've got to repair, we've got to regenerate. So we're often doing the healing and sealing of the lining at the same time as regenerating this collagen so that they can get the best results. And that's just internally. So then we go, you know, yeah.

Speaker 1: 14:57

Excellent, you're telling us about it.

Speaker 2: 15:00

Yeah, it's so interesting because Pippin and I talk about this obviously all the time and we're constantly talking about our work, but yeah, so a lot of it is internal. And then the external work that I do is literally when looking at the layers of the skin and where that pillow sebaceous unit is. And the pillow sebaceous unit is the hair follicle with the sebaceous gland attached to it and the health of that, the health of the oil that's being produced, which then relates back to me asking what their omega-6 and 3 ingestible levels are. I look at how much dead skin buildup is on the face, because if there's a lot of dead skin buildup and their skin is super dry, we're going to be working to reduce that so there is an even non-blocked access or exit for the oil to come out. We're going to look at if they've been on the pill. I'm going to ask them about their cycle, their genetics, where their parents and their grandparents were born, to work out what type of skin they have, what products they're using. That's one of the biggest things I mean.

Speaker 2: 16:04

Obviously, I'm a skin therapist so I use lots of products to treat skin, so a lot of people turn up to me and they're using products that are actually exacerbating their acne symptoms, which is half the problem. So the list is absolutely endless about what we ask, and both Pip and I are heavy. We have a heavy focus on a strong consultation, because without a consultation and gaining all of that information, we can't really do our jobs properly. So Pip works a lot of her. She works through her consultation in depth, I work through my consultation in depth. She works the internals, I work the externals. But the entire time we're kind of thinking, oh, that'll be something that Pip can fix and people will be saying Isabella's going to be able to talk to you about this.

Speaker 2: 16:50

So we've kind of worked into our consulting style that we are already going to send our client to come and see each other.

Speaker 1: 16:59

Yeah, so have you systematised this? So for instance, going through, say, various organs, various body systems, elementary tract or digestion and then hormonal system and things like that? Do you systematise that?

Speaker 3: 17:16

I do yes, pip does heavily.

Speaker 2: 17:18

I do it in a way that isn't heavily based on organs, but all of mine is a whole other layer of things, so your systems is going through all of your Absolutely and look a lot of.

Speaker 3: 17:30

it is symptomatic what they're presenting with as well, but I want to make sure that everything is covered, yeah, that we're not missing anything. You know, the skin being the biggest organ, it's also the last organ to receive all the nutrients.

Speaker 2: 17:45

The first one that everyone sees. The first one that everyone sees is the size of the organ.

Speaker 1: 17:51

And very often, you know very often the people come to you and they say I've got a wedding on Saturday.

Speaker 2: 18:00

Yeah, we get a lot eight o'clock.

Speaker 1: 18:02

Yeah, I'll bet. I mean that must be seriously your nemesis, that question, it's just I need it in three days, by the way, that sort of thing. But I just want to ask about things like hormones and acne and, for instance, diet. And I still remember this was a few years 10, 12 years ago now this argument, this debate that went on with acne, and a paper came out that says diet has nothing to do with acne.

Speaker 1: 18:30

Not a month later, yeah, I know, and not a month later a paper came out and said acne is definitely driven by diet, and then this paper almost responded to them saying no, it doesn't. And then it was yes, it does. So it was just this, this jocking. So it really astounds me, it absolutely astounds me, how you can get such quick effects from diet, like, for instance I mean, let's talk about babies with strawberries, adults with sugar you can get breakouts of pimples like that, and yet they deny that diet influences acne. Where are we at with the evidence to say no? No, we told you so.

Speaker 3: 19:15

Okay, well, it depends on who you ask.

Speaker 3: 19:19

In my opinion that I've developed through 10 plus years of treating clients both with hormonal disorders as well as skin disorders, I often go hand in hand. Skin is very symptomatic of a hormonal disorder, as well as a lot of other things that come up. But I see my, for example, polycystic ovarian syndrome girls, so girls that tend to have excess testosterone, and sometimes with excess estrogen as well. But what we're looking at is a hormonal imbalance and one of the symptoms of that is acne breakouts that are, we call them like, the more masculine we're looking at excess testosterone, it's more masculine breakouts. So your jawline, your neck, your chin, your back, and often it's cyclical. Some girls have it all the time. Now, with diet, a big hand in hand symptom of polycystic ovaries or excess testosterone is insulin resistance, and with insulin resistance, your body is not able to metabolize your glucose and your carbohydrates properly. So we're looking at blood sugar spikes and I have literally seen, you know, a client eat chocolate that has polycystic ovarian syndrome and will develop a pimple within straight away, straight away, straight away.

Speaker 3: 20:42

Yes, and I've dealt with clients that are going through this and to me it's good because I can go right. We clearly haven't nailed this insulin sensitivity. We do need to change your diet until your body can actually deal with this, and we might be adding in berberine chromium. You know, there are obviously medications that the doctor will prescribe for insulin resistance, but they're not necessarily fixing a problem. It might be more of a band-aid. So we're getting your body to metabolize these glucose and sugars and we can also look at the stress response as well, because if your body isn't able to metabolize glucose and sugars, it could be a cortisol response. So diet absolutely If you're eating foods that you know high sugar, high carb, high refined carbohydrates, you breads, you pastures, your cakes, sugars, all the good stuff. All the good stuff. A lot of packaged foods, a lot of foods high in omega sixes, which is vegetable oils, very inflammatory. They are absolutely related to how your skin is going to react.

Speaker 1: 21:46

Gotcha. So my next question just I have to get this answered now and that is evening primrose oil. You know we had black currant seed oil, so we talk about seed oils being bad mainly, and yet we use that current seed oil as an omega six.

Speaker 3: 22:06

So omega sixes aren't bad. I need to say omega sixes topically are good, especially if you're acne prone and correct me if I'm wrong, because it's not as viscous. Yeah, it's not as thick.

Speaker 2: 22:20

Yeah, I mean you can, so you can ingest it, but you have to be the right type to be able to ingest it, because if you are acne prone, I think it's the omega six that's not going to give you that outcome in the oil gland.

Speaker 2: 22:33

Yes, yeah, because it's going to make your oil more slippery and it's more thin so it can get out. And that's one of the big. That's why I always ask about what my clients are taking on an omega level and if they are or they're not, because I know that if they're not, it's one thing we're going to have to explore getting them onto, because we want that sebaceous gland and the oil gland to be better and then not get trapped in the skin and cause a pimple.

Speaker 3: 23:00

And can I just say, the problem with Western diets especially is that we are heavily loaded in omega six and not enough omega three. So we need to get that ratio of one to one. At the moment I think it's six to one and that's omega six to three.

Speaker 1: 23:15

It's probably more sunriss.

Speaker 2: 23:17

I was going to say sunriss might be like 50 to one, yeah, wow.

Speaker 3: 23:21

And that's when we start to see, like the big inflammation issues. And I do love to use an omega test, omega ratio test, even just to show the client how far off they are. But if you're eating a lot of processed foods, I mean, yes, your natural nuts and seeds are meant to hire an omega six, but very different to added vegetable oils which are very inflammatory, very, you know, throws your hormone balance out and therefore can cause skin conditions. Topically we use a lot of seed oils for the skin to protect that lipid barrier which we do see better results than internally.

Speaker 1: 24:02

Isn't it interesting that we call them vegetable oils.

Speaker 3: 24:07

What vegetable oils Such oily vegetable oils?

Speaker 1: 24:12

We do, but it's like saying the word cholesterol when we mean lipoproteins. It's a vernacular thing, but anyway, there's so much. I could ask you, oh gosh, we could do 10 podcasts and not get through this all through all of it. So, with regards to acne, you know, traditional things that we'd use is things like zinc and I'm mindful of this in arachidonic acid cascade, talking about the omega sixes or the omega threes or omega sevens or whatever you've got, the what is it? Delta six, delta five, and then, whatever textbook you use, delta four or five or six, desaturated Zinc, b6, magnesium, help to transfer those. So do you employ these really simple nutrients? People think, oh, but zinx for healing, but then you're thinking in a different way. You're thinking, oh, no, I'm helping the enzymes. Is that the way your minds work?

Speaker 3: 25:10

Oh yes, it does. Are you talking topically or ingested, or ingested more?

Speaker 1: 25:16

Interesting.

Speaker 3: 25:18

Okay, so it'll be you Pip. Yes, okay. So my mind goes, yes, okay. Zinc, collagen, vitamin C all your antioxidants all works synergistically to create beautiful skin. If your body is not absorbing or activating or your other organs are using, needing these, we don't know what's going on. And if they're needing these nutrients, then your skin will be the last place it goes.

Speaker 3: 25:49

It's that age old, like everyone, taking collagen for their skin and expecting to see that they're all plump and you know all the anti-waging signs, but I'm sorry if your body is using it for all the other organs and it's the last place it's going to go, so it's the last place you're going to see the effect. So I think that, like you know, you can always have a baseline products to take for skin maintenance, but not necessarily. You know, there's no one size fits all and I'd prefer to know the full picture before going. You know, just go and take some zinc, or just go and take some digestive enzymes, which I think we should all be on anyway. You know, the lipase, amylase, protease fabulous, let's get those nutrients absorbed. But, like, let's have like a plan in place first before we just go and spend all this money and take everything as well.

Speaker 1: 26:42

Got it. You've. Actually, you've changed the way I practice, because it's something that I thought I knew, but I never. I'm not cognizant of doing this, and now I'm going to be cognizant of doing this I've known for years about. You know, glucosamine, for instance, is first utilized by the gut before it's going to get anywhere near the joint. So if your gut is crappy, there's no, don't ask it to help heal your joints. And likewise with collagen for the skin. And yet I have never asked somebody what their gut function is like. When I'm prescribing collagen for joints or skin or whatever, yeah, practice changing.

Speaker 2: 27:20

Thank you Very proper.

Speaker 1: 27:23

So look again, like each of these topics that I've got written here are a seminar in themselves. So I'm so sorry we're going to have to rattle through them. But you mentioned before Acne Rosacea. Now this is something that again, like people struggle with. How do you help treat that inflammatory process?

Speaker 3: 27:46

Who Me or?

Speaker 1: 27:49

Isabella so Acne.

Speaker 2: 27:51

Rosacea. So one thing that I've learned in 15 years of looking at skin is that a lot of skin conditions that I see are really inflamed barriers or impaired barriers. So call it what you will Acne, rosacea, psoriasis, eczema, whatever it is. Generally it's an inflammatory disorder and it's mostly caused by a on an external level, mostly caused by an impaired barrier system. And an impaired barrier is when that acid mantle is compromised for some reason. It's usually that the sebaceous gland isn't producing the right mix or concoction of sebum to come out and evenly cover the skin and protect it properly. So it's a mixer of wax, easters and all sorts of amazing lipids, and if the recipe is off, the quality isn't great, which means that protective layer isn't functioning as well as it could be. So I find that most skin conditions are huge. I always start my consults talking about inflammation and redness, because I find that if we can treat any type of resounding redness and bring that inflammation down, the skin calms itself because we're fixed the barrier and once the barrier is fixed, everything underneath settles right down. So, acne, rosacea I would actually start completely and Pip referred to this before a gut, heel and seal. I actually have the same thing. It's a barrier function heel and seal.

Speaker 2: 29:29

So I start the client on, say, a month of just barrier function repair, which is super boring for a client.

Speaker 2: 29:35

They want to get right into all the exciting products and amazing stuff and I'm like, well, you're just going to pour your money down the toilet, you're actually going to make your skin condition worse. So let's just heal and protect that barrier function, get that fixed first. Then by the time they come back they're like, oh my gosh, my skin looks so different because actually it's been given a chance to function normally instead of constantly under attack from all the bacteria and the external extrinsic assaults from bacteria and pollen and pollution and whatever it is. It's irritating and making their skin more red. So I always start with a barrier repair plan which is treating the first step to treating the symptoms of acne rosacea and once it's calmed down a bit normally, I can then go okay, now what are we actually looking at? And remember that rosacea isn't curable. We're just effectively managing the inflammation, of bringing it down a bit. But if that leaves room to start controlling some of the papules or pastures that they're getting, then we can start treating that.

Speaker 1: 30:42

Right, okay, so I mean, the first thing that we think about with topical use would be the soap that we clean our skins with daily, because we're Westerners, so you know, do you change the type of soap? Do you look at goat soap or oat soap or any sort of different types of cleansing agents? Yeah, cleansing agents.

Speaker 2: 31:04

Yeah. So I have a special cleanser that I recommend. That is an aloe based cleanser. Actually, like the base of it is an aloe hydrator and it's actually got a tiny bit of very stabilized AHA, so alpha hydroxy acid, and, funnily enough, all my rosacea clients and severe rosacea acne clients can use this, including PIP. It's been a really great product because I've formulated it in a way that can treat everyone properly but very carefully.

Speaker 2: 31:36

Soap free, sodium lauriculfate free doesn't foam, it's not a soap, it's a cleansing agent. And then I would recommend that they don't cleanse their body, they only cleanse the important parts. They don't scrub away their arms and their legs with soap. So, my, you know, my main area of treatment is the face, but then I go down according to what their symptoms are. But yes, so for acne rosacea, I definitely recommend they cleanse their face. But I would never say, you know, cleanse with a BHA, a beta hydroxy acid cleanser, or cleanse with a scrub, like that's off the cards. It's always going to be super gentle with no foaming ingredients. The problem that we've got in our Western world is that everything we clean with has sodium lauriculfate, which is that foaming. So palm, olive toothpaste, whatever you put in it hit. Shampoo is crazy. So it foams away and obviously strips the acid mantle and then we get more problems.

Speaker 3: 32:32

But we think that when we do the foaming we do. We're trained, yeah, we're trained.

Speaker 1: 32:38

Oh, we're trained, All right yeah.

Speaker 3: 32:41

We trained.

Speaker 2: 32:43

Yeah.

Speaker 3: 32:44

Well, this is a marketing.

Speaker 1: 32:45

Thing.

Speaker 3: 32:46

Yeah, exactly. But, as a client of Isabella's who really suffered from angry, sensitive skin and, to be honest, like I was so hesitant to try anything because I was I was in pain as well, like everything's stung.

Speaker 1: 33:00

And you're scared I was scared.

Speaker 3: 33:03

I used a bad product. It's essentially how my rosacea came out. I'm also the perfect demographic I'm pale, skinned, middle aged like to try a product female and likes to experiment with products, so I was like the perfect candidate to get rosacea, unfortunately, and I had had a baby, so my hormone changes really escalated that we're in lockdown. I used a lot of products on my skin and my came out. So you know, in sensitive yeah.

Speaker 3: 33:34

Completely ruined my barrier. So when I saw Isabella and I was really hesitant to try anything. So it was her approach that was super gentle and also realizing that, like not this vitamin C that you buy off the shelf over here is not the same as this vitamin C that we recommend for skin like yours. And I think that's a problem we have as consumers is we're so overwhelmed with choice and marketing and you know, like the latest fads and social media and everything that we're like we just go and grab what we think we'll do it and unfortunately, I suffered from that and I will suffer from this forever because, as you know, we can't we can't cure it yet. We'll try and work it out, but it was so interesting to speak to an expert who could actually help my skin problems and I've seen a significant change just because we did the proper consult. Yeah, we actually went to the root of my problems and we worked out a treatment plan that was right for me, and it's just add to that.

Speaker 2: 34:37

That's one thing that I see a lot of. I see clients or patients at the end of their road. They are frustrated. They've been to a dermatologist, they've they've been to 50 different skin therapists and beauticians and then by the time they get to me, they're so angry and skeptical. So it's actually quite a big job for me to be able to coach them, you know, and nurture them and explain to them that the reason that their skin is like that is because they've been misdiagnosed and misprescribed over and over and over and they've effectively caused the problem themselves. But they didn't know they were being told by all sorts of different practitioners. So it is something that I'm very aware of and I have to be mindful when I see my clients in that you know there's a level of frustration and burnout in in our world of heavy marketing and heavy practitioners and heavy prescriptions from doctors.

Speaker 1: 35:31

So it's a bit treacherous, that's for sure what about the topical use of B vitamins, like for instance B vitamin B, three B five useful useful in certain situations.

Speaker 2: 35:43

Yeah nice, yeah nice, and my ideas are big one it's one of the only topical ingredients that's clinically proven to remove and reduce pigment and I see almost every single client of mine that arrives to see me has some form of pigment. Scandinavian women not so much, interestingly, but every Australian woman comes to see me with pigmentation. So nice. And I think the next thing that I might I recommend constantly fabulous, and it also is a barrier repair healer and you can take it to the client. The right client can take it as well, ingest it. So, yeah, it's a hugely popular and hugely results driven ingredient for both skin and I think it's very.

Speaker 1: 36:27

I think it's very interesting that the research is now coming out needs to be furthered. It's decent research on the use of nicotinamide with prevention of non melanoma skin cancers. So having it affect orally as well, isn't that?

Speaker 2: 36:44

interesting. Yeah, it's amazing. I've been doing a lot of research on that myself. It's huge.

Speaker 1: 36:50

So, pip, do you employ these B vitamins? Do you tend to give a B complex? Do you tend to use certain ones in singular? How to use them and what for? Give me a broad brush, sorry.

Speaker 3: 37:05

So again, going back to making sure you're methylating, you're absorbing that your guts in good health and we're not just as you go putting money down the toilet or vitamins down the toilet. Everyone sees that you're, in turn, yellow and thinks that's the B vitamins that aren't being used. You know that your body's flushing through them. Not quite accurate, it's actually riboflavin that dies your urine. Anyway, yes, I do. I always recommend B vitamins. So we want to get it from the diet, always. You know diet first and foremost, so your whole grains, your leafy greens, your veggies in abundance. I'm a big, I'm not plant based, but I do want you to eat plants with every meal vegetables, fruits. Get your fiber up, get these B vitamins into you.

Speaker 3: 37:49

And with B vitamins as well, there are anti stress. You know nutrients that we need, but obviously we need different ones that do different things and it does come down to a case by case analysis. For example, you know you're in a situation where you're in a situation where you're a girl who might be presenting with excess estrogen whether that's breaking out on the skin chin. Usually in time administration we might be looking at B6. So you know, it is case by case. B12 is a big one for energy. We get that and a lot of people can be deficient at that and we're actually re-looking at the range for that. They're now saying that we should actually be a lot higher and seeing things like a lack of B12 can be resulting in things like depression and symptomatic and things like that.

Speaker 3: 38:35

So with I guess, every client's different and I absolutely would recommend B vitamins, a complex one. I do have a few favourites that I would recommend. That are, you know, either, slow release ones that I, you know, can recommend twice a day, depending on your symptoms. They're an energy vitamin, so you probably want to have that in the morning if you're going to do the complex, so you're going to have the energy throughout the day. Yeah, it's one of those. As I said, case by case, I'd say if you can get it from the diet first and foremost, but let's check the whole body, and holistically, and see what was missing as well.

Speaker 1: 39:14

We've only scratched the tip of the iceberg here. There's so many other questions I need to ask you. Can I just pre-empt this right now? Can I? Would you be amenable to come back on the show and we'll discuss other skin conditions in this sort of way.

Speaker 2: 39:30

Because, this is too important.

Speaker 1: 39:33

Well, it's too important not to cover, and there's no way that we're going to give this the proper respect it needs if we just, you know, give it a little piecemeal answer. So how about we get you back on the show? Yeah, all right, so I'm going to leave a few questions there for a few skin conditions. We'll cover those sort of allergy, atopy and inflammatory skin conditions at another time. Let's continue on with acne, acne vulgaris and acne rosacea. So inflammatory-based genetic. What are the? What's the etiology?

Speaker 3: 40:13

Well, yeah, there's always going to be a level of genetics that come into play with any disease or disorder, and it doesn't necessarily dictate, no, it doesn't happen every time.

Speaker 2: 40:25

but yeah, yes, we have to consider it.

Speaker 3: 40:28

Genetics play a role. Genetics play a role in our hormones, our hormone balance. Not, you know not always our gut disorders, but if there is a compromised immune system, we're going to see. You know, a potential for offspring to have the same genetic disorders.

Speaker 1: 40:46

Got it? And what about triggers? Like you mentioned, you had a baby and so there was a hormonal trigger. What about stress triggers and these other sort of antecedents? Do you find that there's something when you look back in patient's history and you go hang on, you know that's when it happened. Is that the big hard moment for that?

Speaker 3: 41:06

Yeah, absolutely, and we do. We deep dive with every client Like I want to know the history, the health history, your sleep history, your stress history, and there's such a correlation with something that's gone on. I mean, once we get to age 35, especially for females, a lot changes for us. We start to decline in our hormones, our microbiome changes, our skin microbiome changes, throw a baby or two into the mix and we've got this cool, you know, up and down hormones plus perimenopause. So there's so much going on that can escalate our stress levels and also, in reverse, our stress levels can escalate. Anything there related as well. So stress is such a big, you know, cortisol, adrenal fatigue, anything like that is such a big driver for a lot of conditions. And the difference we see and we do talk about this a lot the difference you see in someone's skin from when they're going through something traumatic or have been through something traumatic and come out the other side and change their lifestyle, and for the better, is unbelievable.

Speaker 2: 42:09

They may not have changed anything else, yeah and I think we've been talking about this a bit like the silent symptoms of what we do, which relates to not only acne, because acne is not a silent symptom, like it's pretty obvious, but the silent symptoms of what we do are. I was a perfect example of that in that I was kind of like, oh, I'm pretty good, I'm healthy, but you know what are? You do a consult on me and let's see. And then we did this consult and did all my hormone tests and prep reign me and was like you probably need to get onto some supplements.

Speaker 2: 42:45

Your hormones are out of whack and I didn't know because I'd been existing with all these silent symptoms that I wasn't aware of. So I think there's we need to pay attention to triggers like that and I think that plays a large role in the silent symptoms, play a large role in both women and men's lives, because once you get on top of that and start to write your hormones and start to write your gut health and everything, intrinsically suddenly your skin looks better, you feel better, you are alluding a lot more confidence, you're happier. So it's a really holistic way to look at everything. So when you say triggers, yes, we absolutely agree that there are many triggers, but there are also many silent triggers that we ignore and we just live with because we think that's just how we are.

Speaker 1: 43:35

I'm really annoyed that we're running out of time because there's so many questions I want to ask you, but just as a sort of a couple of wrap up questions. So firstly, Isabella, it would be plainly obvious to you that you are dealing with genetic influences. Like, for instance, many Asian people suffer from really bad acne because of their hormones, I'm imagining, certainly not because of their diet. I shouldn't say that.

Speaker 3: 44:05

It's yeah.

Speaker 2: 44:05

Sorry.

Speaker 1: 44:10

I'm just gonna stop there, Marcus. Sorry, this is gonna edit point. Sorry, mate, I'm sorry. Isabella, it's pretty obvious that you're going to be dealing with sort of a major genetic again. Start again, I'm sorry. Marcus. Yeah, obviously, isabella. You'll be well aware of the genetic influences on acne, acne vulgaris and acne rosacea, but let's say acne vulgaris, for instance, various cultures, for instance. They tend to have a better or worse predisposition for acne. Do you find that? Or is it only diet, or it's a really tough one.

Speaker 2: 45:01

Yes, genetics play a role, but the problem is because Australia is such a melting pot of so many cultures to be brutally honest, genetics are really, really diluted Now we can't really find that vein back to oh, you're a straight Asian person, so you're going to have a genetic predisposition to acne, because most of the clients I see aren't. We're all crossbreeds. Now there's a lot of mixing in our genes. So, yes, that would have existed probably more, maybe 50 to 80 years ago. We were seeing a lot more strong genetics when it came to skin diseases, but I wouldn't put as much weight on that now in my practice anymore because of the melting pot that has become our country.

Speaker 3: 45:53

I'll put that up and say it probably plays a bit more of a role in what I do. Especially along the hormones I see a lot of more indigenous backgrounds and genetics. They tend to be more prone to say like the estrogen excess related disorders like endometriosis. So yes, I would definitely say it can be and I would put that down as not a cause but a player, definitely a player. Yeah.

Speaker 1: 46:29

Well, that's really interesting. You say that because I remember a pharmaceutical company, the maker of a contraceptive pill, decades ago now. They actually got in trouble from the TGA or the FDA and it was because of the way that they skewed their results of the efficacy of their contraceptive pill by utilizing a cultural population of women within a certain country was India, and they metabolize estrogen differently.

Speaker 3: 47:01

So that's really interesting. Yeah, it is interesting. It's not that you have to keep in. You know whether it's implementing a Western diet that's just infiltrated everyone's you know kitchens and how that's affecting us and other people and what.

Speaker 3: 47:17

There's so many courses behind a hormonal imbalance that we're all surrounded by on a daily basis endocrine disruptors, alcohol, even what we fire, retardant we spray on our couches before sale, Like these are all endocrine disruptors, the mattresses we sleep on. So it's much more prolific these days, but there's going to be definitely different people that are more sensitive.

Speaker 1: 47:45

Gotcha, I'll ask wrap up sort of question. This is for both of you. There's the obvious things hydration and things like that. But with regards to things like detox, it's a concept that we throw around a lot, Whether we do it correctly or whether we go to heroic Sometimes, like, do you tend to err on the side of beauty? Do I say by going gently? Do you tend to heal the gut first, Like Pip? Can I ask you first and then ask Isabella to finish off with regards to detoxing that concept?

Speaker 3: 48:27

With detoxing. I think everyone's got to remember that we are designed to detox. We are efficient machines designed to detox. Lymphatic drainage, you know our kidneys, liver, gut function. All of it is designed to work synergistically and to allow us to detox. Now, if there's any stage of that process that is, let's say, a little bit sluggish or compromised and that's why we start with the gut, to make sure that that gut lining is effectively doing its job absorbing nutrients, not attacking nutrients, causing autoimmune response and then making sure our liver functions working properly. Our kidneys are doing their job, that are essentially all the way through to our skin, and what it should be doing as well.

Speaker 3: 49:18

I will always take a case by case, you know, client by client, based on their symptoms. I don't think there's any one size fits all detox. You all do this and this is all going to get these results for any type of practice that you have. So, yes, I think detox is a broad word. I think you can hone in on it for different people. I like to use the heel and seal, probably more than detox, because exactly that's what we're doing we're replenishing, we're regenerating, we're repairing, and that way we can assess results as we go. But we're not taxing the system, we're not overloading the system, we're letting the system do its job. We just might be giving it a little bit of assistance.

Speaker 1: 50:08

That's actually really responsibly put. Thank you, isabella. Can I ask you just to finish off really quickly with things like dry brushing, far infrared saunas, things like that. Are these things that you employ?

Speaker 2: 50:23

I don't employ dry brushing, not because I don't think it's effective, but interestingly, I actually come from a psychology background from a long, long time ago where I treated autistic and Asperger kids, and so we did a lot of dry brushing to get them used to or desensitize them to touch they didn't like. So I have a slight mental block against using the body brushing.

Speaker 1: 50:53

I could imagine it's like a version theory.

Speaker 2: 50:54

Yes, I don't really use that, purely because it belongs in a different place in my brain, but your infrared saunas are fantastic, very similar to LED. Actually, I have a heel light LED in my business. I'm a huge fan of infrared, of LED, of that kind of modality in my business. So yeah, definitely.

Speaker 3: 51:17

Can I just say, andrew, we were talking about this before, and not necessarily along the lines of detox, but a lot of people do see an issue that they want to fix immediately and might go and have laser or something that they think a chemical field, something that they think is what they need to make them better. Yeah, silver bullet, and that can be a real problem and that can cause a lot of more issues in the future. If you're not in excellent health, so if your immune systems run down, if your gut's not functioning properly, anything like that and you go and effectively destroy the layer of your skin with a laser or something, then you're probably going to cause yourself more issues.

Speaker 2: 52:01

Yeah, and I think Pip makes a great point in that we're living in a world where instant gratification is king and there's a lot of people out there that buy very expensive laser machines and cosmetic machines to tighten and brighten and do all these things.

Speaker 2: 52:17

And Pip and I come from a slow and steady wins the race frame of mind. So I don't offer laser, I don't offer skin tightening, I don't offer any of those things, because I guess because I've been working in the industry for so long to see that slow and steady actually for me provides a lot stronger results for long term gain. So, yeah, there are heaps of modalities that you've mentioned, and especially with the LED, which is a rejuvenator, but even that's a stimulating treatment and I don't recommend it constantly and I don't recommend it to everyone. So Pip and I are real, like I'm a hands-on therapist. Pip uses her brain to analyze, I use my brain to analyze and we use our mouths to educate. So we're very hands-on and therapists that focus on a slow and steady wins the race and the focus being on slow, you know, making sure that we're getting the right results at the right step by step fashion.

Speaker 1: 53:16

Well, people listening to this podcast won't obviously know this, but you're obviously walk your talk. You're absolutely glowing, so it's obviously that you're in excellent health.

Speaker 1: 53:27

So I just I can't thank you enough for taking us through this today. I mean, these are conditions which they might seem to be remedial, but they affect people. They affect people's mental health and their development, their social sociability so much. And people pour millions and millions of dollars into these frustrating conditions, not largely, but commonly without effect or, you know, without satisfactory effect. So I'm just so glad that you could take us through a truly holistic way of treating these patients so that they actually get the benefit from the inside out.

Speaker 2: 54:07

Thank you so much, so much for joining us today on the L'Ausseau Designs.

Speaker 1: 54:12

Absolutely delight and I look forward to welcoming you back?

Speaker 3: 54:15

Yes, yeah.

Speaker 1: 54:19

So thank you everyone for joining us today. I'm so sorry. This is just so much of an iceberg and there's so much to cover, so we will welcome both Pip and Isabella back at another stage and, of course, you can catch up on the show notes to this podcast. We will put as much information as we can as possible in there and you can catch up on the other podcasts. On the Designs for Health website, I'm Andrew Whitfield Cook and this is Wellness by Designs.